• I think there are a few key manufacturers leading the field either by volume or innovation.

    Personally I think these are Aruba, Cisco and Aerohive.

    Now I dont know enough about Aruba but I always here good things and would not hesitate to learn more, when I run out of stuff I am already doing! Innovation and gaining market share.

    Aerohive innovative, lets see where they go with volume. I do not see any issues except scalability, but where is the line drawn. Again I need to know more, Devin send me some aps so I can get my head around your gear and recommend it.

    Cisco innovation and obvious market share. Though do they bundle Linksys into their figures?

    Meru I agree I cant get my head aroung the SCA "its against the laws of physics" to quote Scotty

    Moto, I honestly have not competed with them.

    I always get HP, Xirrus thrown at me but usually not hard to beat on technology, price is different.

    Mid market sectors tend to be more price sensetive than enterprise, thats wwhere I hit HP, Meru Xirrus etc.

    Its also amusing getting the full integration on the Unified Wireless marketiing speak, they all work with alll switches there is no magic.

    It is an interesting conversation though!

  • Jon,

    I agree ! Can we please not use CCA for Cooperative Control. This needs to be changed quickly.

    CCA == Clear Channel Assessment

  • Ruckus:

    I feel that I need to chime in here about Ruckus since we aren't mentioned much in this thread. Some Ruckus facts:

    - Meru was mentioned quite a few times in the thread. Guess who has more revenue? Ruckus or Meru?

    - We throw down the gauntlet: Our products have the best channel capacity, throughput and range of any product on the market today while costing less than any major enterprise vendor. If you don't believe me, let me know. If you have an opportunity or customer, I'll come show you myself. If any of you work for a vendor and would like to have a bake off, we would be happy to participate.

    - We are in more major markets than Aruba, Meru, Xirrus, HP and Aerohive.

    - Innovation? We have a significant number (almost 30 I think) of patents, virtually all of them improve either the ease use, security or performance of Wi-Fi.

    If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Love. :)

    GT Hill
    CWNE #21 (Blackjack baby!)

  • HI GTHill

    Thats exactly what I am referring to, OK I do not know your involvement with Ruckus and I do not know enough to comment, however its not just the product its the people like you in the industries. With passion and drive.

    I have not seen that from HP who I think has lost its way personally, again I comment about the UK, just dont ask.

    Yea we mentioned Meru and there was never any disrespect to Ruckus it about education so educate us. Tell us more genuinely I am all ears.

    Im learning all the time and becoming more of a sponge every day. If we take beamflex isnt that just a variation on beamforming, many bendors have a variation on this and urely it is howgood the algoriths are.

    Looking at Gartner yea Ruckus is doing fine however there are some odd entries in there like 3Com.

    I would love to hear more about Ruckus.

    Ive not come across Ruckus inthe UK but what is innovataive, what are the strengths and weaknesses of Ruckus against others/

  • Pete,

    Thanks a lot for your openness to learn about new technologies and vendors. Ruckus truly is an innovator and that is why I work for them. *Ego moment* I probably could have worked for any Wi-Fi vendor if I had pursued it. I was fortunate enough to be an early CWNE which is a really nice employment ticket.

    With that said, I chose to work for Ruckus. They made a position for me that blended my need for attention in front of a crowd and technical skill. I am very fortunate to work for a company that possess great innovative technology that, once someone understands, makes sense as to why it can achieve the things I mentioned in my previous post.

    As to Ruckus's core technology, beam forming, it is a bit technical to write in a forum post, but no one does it like Ruckus. Effectively, their array is a dynamic directional antenna with up to 10 dB of gain. Each STA gets its own antenna pattern that shifts frame by frame. Not only can a Ruckus antenna shift the direction of the signal, it can also shift the polarity to match the STA device which has numerous positive affects.

    The end result is more efficient use of the channel through higher data rates to each STA, more consistent 11n performance (it improves spatial multiplexing) and greater range while supporting more STA devices.

    It all sounds too good to be true, but that is what happens when you positively effect and manipulate L1. This is just the beginning into what Ruckus can do. I'm working on some videos that will help explain the technology in a more friendly manner.

    Thanks again for the questions. If you have any more questions, feel free to shoot them back to me.

    GT Hill
    Director, Technical Marketing - Ruckus Wireless

  • Thats greaat GTHill

    Ive been in wireless a 5 years and learning the things I never had time for, yeah I would love to work for a manufacturer, looks like you've done well.

    Genuinely though I have a lot to learn, many holes. I equally have to learn about the different technology applications ie how different vendors do it

    I am one of those people that digs until the lightbulb moment and it all clicks.

    On the beamforming I do understand, to a detree however, you mention polarity? OK I understand or am led to believe that if your polarity is off as the STA can be oriented in different ways you drop a few dB, now managing poarity will help sure.

    With the antenna arrays I have seen figures for beamforming of x million beam patterns form these multi antenna arrays, however again I am led to believe that with the right algorithms the an infinite number or options ae available from standard omnis?

    Yeah I can do the hardware implementation but thats all really well documented but the layer 1 stuff, thats where I am doing my digging now, truly how does RF work.

    Oh and thanks for your time, I do know of you obviously, if I could ask your first name?

    And if you ever have an opening in the UK!

  • Again, tough to explain in a forum post, but I'll do my best.

    Other beam forming, such as Cisco's Client Link they use omni antennas to create beams. This is done by sending multiple signals that arrive in phase to the STA. This has the potential of about 3 dB gain, +- a few dB. We give mad props for Cisco doing some beam forming, but have some ideas of our own. For example, Cisco's Client Link only works with legacy STAs. Even if it could work with 11n STAs it could not spatial multiplex (multiple data streams). So, are a few dBs worth it?

    A Ruckus antenna array can manipulate the signal physically to achieve spatial multiplexing in places where it can be difficult for omni antennas while increasing gain up to 10 dB.

    Oh, my name is GT. Well, I go by GT, but my first name is Gene. I don't like it much anymore so I go by GT. Makes me sound a cooler than I really am.


  • GT, I only didn't mention Ruckus because I really don't know it all that well, same like Pete really. My general impression of Ruckus is that its a great company and has some exciting technology. I just wish we actually had some gigs for me to work on at my company so I would know it better. I keep getting emails from our local rep extolling how well Ruckus is doing but as we haven't done any business together I haven't felt able to ask for some equipment to play with. Anyway Glad to hear you guys are doing so well in the market.
    The only question I would have about beam forming is wouldn't that negatively impact RTLS systems? I mean it would take a massive amount of processing for a RTLS system to figure out where the client is if every client has a particular directional beam going to him wouldn't it? 10dB sounds fantastic.

  • By (Deleted User)

    Not being a Wireless Insider - I'd never even heard of Ruckus till I came to the forum.

    Kinda thought it was pretty hip to know about Trapeze and Meru actually.

    Aerohive was another I'd never heard of.

    Some companies are going to have to do a lot more to get in front of people if they want more market share - not saying they are not doing these things now.

    But if we never see them, mostly never hear of them, then we don't even speak of them - so is it is no surprise that we do not even buy them or even consider them.

    It must be hard to break some of the more well-known vendor's iron-strong clamp on the client.

    I'm for uniformity in my networks. Standardization. Control. Iron-hard control.

    I prefer the phalanx as opposed to the "hero"...

    The concentric fortress defense system versus the "tall tower" or even "bastion host".

    I think the sentiment is shared.

    So if a new vendor wants in, they have to break down the walls, offer pilots, prototype a solution (not a feature and not a product by itself, despite its merits) and fight the long hard fight.

    Bells and whistles won't even make it to the budget table to get cut.

    I'm taking a trip this week to plan for budgeting for next year as an example and it is quite tough enough to strategically figure everything out with just a single vendor.

    Trying to supplant one vendor is a lot of work and is not easy.

    Trying to increase the staff's workload or incur increased costs by virtue of consulting or acquiring consulting for "one-off" products (no disrepect to the any company in particular - I love innovation) is not a task taken lightly - I assure you.

    I'm not in the SOHO/SMB realm however, and I don't speak for that segment.

    My company's annual budget might exceed several million per year (say more than 30 million per year and some year like next year and the year after will probably exceed the norm).

    However we like to think we are efficient. We work with a small staff that is highly trained and relatively agile (not so much as we all seek to compare and contrast every technology from every vendor up and coming in the industry - we WILL NEVER be bleeding edge in technology - by design as well as policy).

    My point is we do spend money on training, education, and technology. We spend a lot. We send our folks to trade show to learn the up and coming and many of the execs and senior leadership have been as well as our higher ranking end-users.

    In fact, we are considering a Wireless Solution for an alternate backup wireless solution even now from a top of the line vendor that is known and trusted.

    I think what we are doing is echoed across the board and across industries or vertical markets in a lot of places.

    Some companies have different goals and needs and they need specialized solutions - we might too - Example: there is a rather large RFID project occurring right now for example - it's a prototype and it's quite innovative - the vendor is deploying the entire solution for free and at no cost to us - just to get a chance in the door.

    That kind of thing happens sometimes too.

  • There are few vendors in the world who are prepared or capable of taking the FREE solution hit as marketing tool, equally as a client, if there is a need the client would still pay as the need is there and from what you say Darby if you didnt have confidence in this vendor you wouldnt let them in even for free.

    I think its great that vendors can do this. I think vendors should give people with desire tools and access to tools. OK yeah I would love someone like Aerohive or Ruckus to stick a few free access points my way for training, or Cisco a free controller or even access to a lab you didnt have to pay for.

    You can see the serious people in the market. OK the freebies get sent to review companies as a sales and marketing exercise, but hey we are influencers.

    My goal is moving up the ladder CWNE and CCIE. Thats going to be tough. Maybe later more access to Aruba.

    If we look at Cisco as an example all the guys studying CCNA and CCNP they cant even get ios upgrades legally. They rely on freinds or work with what they have, its not going into the market and those that will use ulicnsed software in the market place will still use it wether vendors make tools and software free, I digress.

    I acccept that Ruckus, Aerohive, Meru etc dont have the marketing budget of Cisco and HP and fewer people will be familiar with the product. However as wireless is mainly focussed on layer 1 and 2 technical innovations at layer 1 that improve efficiency are great. Unfortunately you canbet your bottom dollar that it will be adopted in some form or other by the major players, not that Ruckus et al are not major players but compared to the top 2 or 3 the second tier vendors turnover is about the same as the top teirs R&D budget. Thats not to say the top tier are right but they are more agile to implement innovations. The same with marketing budgets.

    I would happily implement any solution if i had confidence in the performance and support and it was fit for purpose.

    I get two ajor requests Cisco or HP. Now think of the size of HP compared to Ruckus, sorry GT I will use you as an example. I actually think, I dont know for sure, but Colubris was probably a similar size to Ruckus when HP bought them, now what is or has HPdone with tha acquisition. Nothing.

    I speek about the UK fr example, cancelled training courses, inadequate data avalaible, poor technical support. I made an enquiry to HP as the client wanted to use them about a specific application in January, the stilll havent got back to me. What have I done, implemented a Cisco solution.

    I have another client who has no upgrade path from his 4 year old HP wireless implementation, I had to give him the bad news that its a rip and replace, what am I putting in? Cisco, however this is for GT, it could be a Ruckus solution as its mid market and price sensetive!

    As I hav said in my prevous posts here I want to get knowledge of all the solutions but my position is significantly different to Darbys. I have to defend our core vendor, Cisco if we are in a competetive situation and also be aware of everything else. I also want to be aware of everything else for personal agility as I dont know where or what I may be doing tomorrow, and will need to know to call myself an expert.

    Ioften get opportunities to install OTHER manufacturer products due to price particularly in public secto but unless they say Pete have a look at this lets sow you what we can do it wont get in my arsenal to give the client.

    The company I work for is also an HP partner, HP want us to pay for training, Im sorry if you cant even answer my enquiry I dont even want to sit on your traing, thanks HP I will always try to sell something else or walk away as I know I will be high and dry iftheres an issue.

    Anyway,. innovation is great as wireless is new and exciting and will be innovative for a very long time.

    So I also asked what rubbish isout there, Ive given HP a pretty hard time, dont know what the products like but the support is rubbish Im afraid, and yes I can back that up with eveidence.

    By the way I think I like Ruckus and need to find out more GT as I can work with people with a genuine passion. Are they all like that at Ruckus?

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